I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

Install XC Soar on an android phone. Free.

....you're done. 😀

- the end.

I wish someone would do the same thing for interplanetary robot spacecraft.

Total energy probes and varios.
That is a needed book.

Oh..Oh..Oh

How to fly out of a cloud without IFR training or an artificial horizon.
That seems to be a very popular topic worthy of a book.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 1:18:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> Total energy probes and varios.
> That is a needed book.

Ilec has created a paper that covers this topic extremely well.
UH

Cross Country Soaring by Helumt Reichmann. Everything you need to know.

On 7/14/2015 11:18 AM, wrote:
> Total energy probes and varios.
> That is a needed book.

--
Dan Marotta

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-4, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

I guess part of the problems are:
1-Limited market for buyers of the book (Soaring is small compared to the "reading world").
2-By the time you "sell the book" to a publisher (low chance to do so), by the time it comes out, 1/3+ of the info is outdated.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Install XC Soar on an android phone. Free.
>
> ...you're done. 😀
>
> - the end.

And, as I've stated before, not "everyone" has a Smartphone. Maybe it's a great thing for those that do, but at least 2 people in this thread don't have Smartphones.
;-)

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:18:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
> Total energy probes and varios.
> That is a needed book.

'New Soaring Pilot' by Anne Welch, Lorne Welch, & Frank Irving.
An Oldie but Goodie.

Maybe we should do one of those crowd funding things and get Remde to write it? Or Pfiffner?

Boggs

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 3:54:38 PM UTC-7, Waveguru wrote:
> Maybe we should do one of those crowd funding things and get Remde to write it? Or Pfiffner?
>
> Boggs

Boggs,

You write it the check is in the mail.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:50:30 -0700, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
>> Install XC Soar on an android phone. Free.
>>
>> ...you're done. 😀
>>
>> - the end.
>
> And, as I've stated before, not "everyone" has a Smartphone. Maybe it's
> a great thing for those that do, but at least 2 people in this thread
> don't have Smartphones.
> ;-)
>
Then, put XCSoar or LK8000 on a Binatone or Medion satnav (Medion S3747
is best but carries a premium - transreflective screen, big replaceable
battery). Still plenty of them on eBay.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 6:25:16 PM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

> Then, put XCSoar or LK8000 on a Binatone or Medion satnav (Medion S3747
> is best but carries a premium - transreflective screen, big replaceable
> battery). Still plenty of them on eBay.

But the problem is understanding how to use all the magic! Most glider drivers at my club get overwhelmed by an audio vario - you think they will spend the time to figure out a modern glide computer program?

Ha!

Kirk
66

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 7:25:16 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:50:30 -0700, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
> wrote:
>
> > On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> >> Install XC Soar on an android phone. Free.
> >>
> >> ...you're done. 😀
> >>
> >> - the end.
> >
> > And, as I've stated before, not "everyone" has a Smartphone. Maybe it's
> > a great thing for those that do, but at least 2 people in this thread
> > don't have Smartphones.
> > ;-)
> >
> Then, put XCSoar or LK8000 on a Binatone or Medion satnav (Medion S3747
> is best but carries a premium - transreflective screen, big replaceable
> battery). Still plenty of them on eBay.
>
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

He flies with Clearnav in the '28 or in the '29. Just doesn't use a smartphone.
UH

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 7:52:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 7:25:16 PM UTC-4, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> > On Tue, 14 Jul 2015 11:50:30 -0700, Charlie M. (UH & 002 owner/pilot)
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:59:34 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > >> Install XC Soar on an android phone. Free.
> > >>
> > >> ...you're done. 😀
> > >>
> > >> - the end.
> > >
> > > And, as I've stated before, not "everyone" has a Smartphone. Maybe it's
> > > a great thing for those that do, but at least 2 people in this thread
> > > don't have Smartphones.
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > Then, put XCSoar or LK8000 on a Binatone or Medion satnav (Medion S3747
> > is best but carries a premium - transreflective screen, big replaceable
> > battery). Still plenty of them on eBay.
> >
> >
> > --
> > martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> > gregorie. | Essex, UK
> > org |
>
> He flies with Clearnav in the '28 or in the '29. Just doesn't use a smartphone.
> UH

What he said.......

Still, if I had to do it on my own, I still don't have a Smartphone. Nor do a lot of others.

As stated before, if you have it & it works, great.
I started cross country with an audio vario, film cameras & a paper map with "prayer wheel".

I'll take a quarter cut to edit it into readability.

> Boggs,
>
> You write it the check is in the mail.
>
> Richard
> www.craggyaero.com

Hey Yo Chris Johnson
Some free advice from the cheap seats.
Get your credit card ready. Don't worry- its gonna be cheaper than a divorce.
Call Craggy Aero
Purchase a Power Flarm, LX Nav S 80 a Oudie and a couple of those awesome Lipo Batterys.
Throw all that old stuff out.
If your not handy with tools pay a qualified tech to install this stuff.
Install all new tubing.
Get someone to give you a starter course on SeeYou mobile, I will help you if you want.
SeeYou Mobile rocks.
Read the Manuel's a couple of times.
Then - Just Fly and enjoy the best that is out there IMHO.
I promise you,your flying enjoyment will go up by a factor of 5, maybe more!
Nick

It you cannot find the book you want, write it! words to live by.

I purchased a LX9070 with V80, Power Flarm, s-mode transponder, Butterfly and a V3 with battery pack.

Why did I choose what I did? I thought the LX9070 to be the most advanced with the most features and upgradeable, plus it was the largest. The Butterfly, again seemed to be the most advanced. The V3 is an electronic version of a manual backup, but has enough battery power for 8 hours of flight with a audio output. Power Flarm and s-mode are so I can see and been seen by traffic. Both the LX and Butterfly will display the traffic, that was important to me. LX and Butterfly have horizons, LX can control radio, many many features and the team is always working to make it better. Same can be said of other companies. Everything seemed logical and since I was buying a new glider, I was not about to try to save money on the panel.

Clear Nav makes nice instruments and by all accounts their vario is excellent. Craggy Aero, Cummulus Soaring and Wings and Wheels all have expert level experience to give you all the info to make a decision depending on your needs and budget.


On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 9:32:01 AM UTC-7, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

I don't see the point writing a book when instrumentation technology advances at a fairly rapid pace.
Besides such a book needing to be revised frequently there are so many combinations and methods of hooking up instrumentation to flight computers that it would be near impossible to document them all.

Even if you did manage to document it all, if someone is too lazy to read and understand the existing manufacturer manuals then the chances are that they're not going to bother with a long, boring, technical soaring book on flight computers either.

One can find much better, up to date, information using a web search engine, manufacturer manuals and online forums IMO.

On Tuesday, 14 July 2015 20:04:35 UTC+2, wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 1:18:54 PM UTC-4, wrote:
> > Total energy probes and varios.
> > That is a needed book.
>
> Ilec has created a paper that covers this topic extremely well.
> UH

I assume you're refering to this?
http://www.ilec-gmbh.com/ilec/manuals/TEK-Probe_english.pdf
The ILEC vario installation manuals also contain a lot of generic "best practice" information.

I found Mike Borgelt's leak testing article also useful:
http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/Leaks.pdf

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 5:32:01 PM UTC+1, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

Remember fancy Instruments will only tell you what you are doing and what you have done, they will not advise you on what to do next. For that only loads of flying and gathering experience will help. Also read some good books on flying technique etc such as Reichmann,Kalckreuth,Moffat, Brigliatori and Kawa etc and brush up on Meteorology. As far as Instruments go, it always should be KISS.

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 02:25:28 -0700, Surge wrote:

> I found Mike Borgelt's leak testing article also useful:
> http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/Leaks.pdf

+1 to that.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

If you can't find the book you want, then write it. There are plenty of online resources to educate yourself about all the instruments offered. LX has free simulator program and a great website. Butterfly has a great website, glider pilot source out of the Netherlands has good videos as does Cummulus soaring....talk to pilots search this newsgroup....

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-4, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

Chris,
The easiest, least expensive choice is to use XCSoar on an Android phone or tablet. That said, I have lots of questions that are not covered well in the manual and I am forced to either ignore certain features to try to understand them while flying. A good video tutorial would be really helpful.

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-4, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

how about we start a Wiki for Soaring?

On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 9:32:01 AM UTC-7, chris johnson wrote:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

I wouldn't expect a "Consumer's Guide" of flight computers to be published any time soon. Researching out internet forums on which flight computer system is best will get you a great deal of biased information. Everybody has an opinion.... and, of course, theirs it correct ;-)
I would suggest that you download all the popular flight software simulators and decide for yourself which is best for you. After choosing which program you like, decide on the hardware that best suits your needs.
This will take some time and effort on your part, but I suspect the results will make you happy!
Good luck.

On Wednesday, July 15, 2015 at 11:21:03 AM UTC-4, Bob Pasker wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-4, chris johnson wrote:
> > I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.
>
> how about we start a Wiki for Soaring?

go ahead everyone, write a book:

http://soaring.wikia.com/

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 07:27:54 -0700, Soartech wrote:

> On Tuesday, July 14, 2015 at 12:32:01 PM UTC-4, chris johnson wrote:
>> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to
>> choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with
>> YouTube explanations.
>
> Chris,
> The easiest, least expensive choice is to use XCSoar on an Android phone
> or tablet. That said, I have lots of questions that are not covered well
> in the manual and I am forced to either ignore certain features to try
> to understand them while flying. A good video tutorial would be really
> helpful.

You have another choice as well: run XCSoar in simulator mode at home
while you work out what settings suit you best and see exactly what it
does in a variety of situations.

Don't want to mess up your current configuration? Download the Windows
version and run it on your PC (it also runs just fine under Wine on a
Linux box) and then, if you decide you prefer the configuration you've
set up there, copy it over to the rig you fly with.



--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Condor can output a data stream that can be used with most portable glide computers (XCSoar, LK8000, SeeYou Mobile, etc.). This has helped me to refine my setup in XCSoar (but it works with most devices) that have a serial or Bluetooth input. It also lets you pause the flight while you modify the settings; heads down on the computer is not usually dangerous ;-)

>
> You have another choice as well: run XCSoar in simulator mode at home
> while you work out what settings suit you best and see exactly what it
> does in a variety of situations.
>

Martin, I have tried this but there is no way to simulate thermalling or flying at altitude in the simulator that I can see. Kind of boring just sitting on the ground. Maybe we need a wiki for the Simulator too.

On Thursday, 16 July 2015 02:35:07 UTC+2, Soartech wrote:
> Martin, I have tried this but there is no way to simulate thermalling or flying at altitude in the simulator that I can see. Kind of boring just sitting on the ground. Maybe we need a wiki for the Simulator too.

Have you read the XCSoar manual?
There's a lot of information in it's 170+ pages.
Simulator mode is described on page 22 of the XCSoar manual.
http://max.kellermann.name/download/xcsoar/releases/6.7.9/XCSoar-manual.pdf

With XCSoar in simulator mode you just drag the glider icon located in the centre of the map to start flying.
Drag it in the direction you want to fly. The drag length is proportional to the airspeed.

Adjust the heading/track by:
- Dragging the glider icon in a direction or
- Using the left/right cursor keys or
- Click on the track info box and adjust the track manually.

Adjust the airspeed by:
- Dragging the glider icon further or
- Click on the airspeed info box and increment/decrement the airspeed.

Adjust the altitude by clicking on the altitude info box and increment or decrement the altitude.

There is even a way to play NMEA data via a TCP port so that XCSoar thinks it is flying or alternatively you can hook it up to a flight simulator like Condor (without needing to use serial cables IIRC).

On Wednesday, 15 July 2015 21:17:55 UTC+2, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> You have another choice as well: run XCSoar in simulator mode at home
> while you work out what settings suit you best and see exactly what it
> does in a variety of situations.
>
> Don't want to mess up your current configuration? Download the Windows
> version and run it on your PC (it also runs just fine under Wine on a
> Linux box) and then, if you decide you prefer the configuration you've
> set up there, copy it over to the rig you fly with.

FYI: There is a native port of XCSoar for Linux (and OSX).
There is no need to muck around with Wine.

If you're running Debian/Ubuntu you can even do a "sudo apt-get install xcsoar" from the command line and be up and running within minutes (although the version will be a little dated). Then just download a map and waypoint file and you're good to go.

Solution: (drumroll......) Get a smartphone (used on eBay). Tadaaaah!

This conversation is akin to saying I want to go bicycle riding...but don't want to buy a bike???? XCSoar software is (of course)free. A used android smartphone is $50-$250 bucks.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201149111938&globalID=EBAY-US

"You can lead a horse to the water but can't make it drink..."

A fully functional, outstanding soaring flight computer for $125. Nice phone too if you can bear to bring yourself into the 21st century.

Complaining about flight computers, books and manuals with this kind of high performance and extremely low cost solution available is unnecessary. All you really get with a $6000 spend on the "fancy stuff" is a brighter in panel display, airspeed and temp integration (wind, higher accuracy) and stick controllers. You can always mount the smart phone on the panel with industrial Velcro or a accessory mount...

Take a look at the Nexus 7 WiFi - less that 100 bucks - great in sun light - running XCSOAR (I actually run TopHat by Rob Dunning - a new interface for XCSOAR - which makes the display and loading the site files simple even better)

you will not be disappointed and you can reach out to a bunch of people to ask questions. It is an powerful setup - and take 10 minutes form install to using it in your glider, promise :)

WH1

To Sean and the others~
I wish you would quit pushing smart phones on us. I spent all my money on an ASW-28, and iPad, plus clear nav. I have two dogs in obedience school, my mother only gives me a little allowance. I thought you were smart enough to know that all flight technology should be adjusted downward for the most fixed thinker in the group. How dare you suggest the ubiquitous smartphone and free software! You have devalued the resale of my JSW wiz wheel and made flying less safe for all pilots in the east as i am so ****ed off I cannot even see straight!
I dod not use eBay, so there is no way for me to purchase a smart phone. I only use Facebook during a contest, please please let's stop this non-sence.

On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 5:23:25 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Solution: (drumroll......) Get a smartphone (used on eBay). Tadaaaah!
>
> This conversation is akin to saying I want to go bicycle riding...but don't want to buy a bike???? XCSoar software is (of course)free. A used android smartphone is $50-$250 bucks.
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201149111938&globalID=EBAY-US
>
> "You can lead a horse to the water but can't make it drink..."
>
> A fully functional, outstanding soaring flight computer for $125. Nice phone too if you can bear to bring yourself into the 21st century.
>
> Complaining about flight computers, books and manuals with this kind of high performance and extremely low cost solution available is unnecessary. All you really get with a $6000 spend on the "fancy stuff" is a brighter in panel display, airspeed and temp integration (wind, higher accuracy) and stick controllers. You can always mount the smart phone on the panel with industrial Velcro or a accessory mount...

Now that is funny. Years ago before I left soaring and the news group ("I am back") there was a poster that went by the handle "Soarpoint" and he was a gifted writer who understood satire. Not sure what happened to him but he did write a few entertaining posts.

On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 12:24:48 PM UTC-7, wrote:
> To Sean and the others~
> I wish you would quit pushing smart phones on us. I spent all my money on an ASW-28, and iPad, plus clear nav. I have two dogs in obedience school, my mother only gives me a little allowance. I thought you were smart enough to know that all flight technology should be adjusted downward for the most fixed thinker in the group. How dare you suggest the ubiquitous smartphone and free software! You have devalued the resale of my JSW wiz wheel and made flying less safe for all pilots in the east as i am so ****ed off I cannot even see straight!
> I dod not use eBay, so there is no way for me to purchase a smart phone. I only use Facebook during a contest, please please let's stop this non-sence.
>
> On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 5:23:25 AM UTC-7, Sean Fidler wrote:
> > Solution: (drumroll......) Get a smartphone (used on eBay). Tadaaaah!
> >
> > This conversation is akin to saying I want to go bicycle riding...but don't want to buy a bike???? XCSoar software is (of course)free. A used android smartphone is $50-$250 bucks.
> >
> > http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201149111938&globalID=EBAY-US
> >
> > "You can lead a horse to the water but can't make it drink..."
> >
> > A fully functional, outstanding soaring flight computer for $125. Nice phone too if you can bear to bring yourself into the 21st century.
> >
> > Complaining about flight computers, books and manuals with this kind of high performance and extremely low cost solution available is unnecessary. All you really get with a $6000 spend on the "fancy stuff" is a brighter in panel display, airspeed and temp integration (wind, higher accuracy) and stick controllers. You can always mount the smart phone on the panel with industrial Velcro or a accessory mount...

On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:35:04 -0700, Soartech wrote:


>> You have another choice as well: run XCSoar in simulator mode at home
>> while you work out what settings suit you best and see exactly what it
>> does in a variety of situations.
>>
>>
> Martin, I have tried this but there is no way to simulate thermalling or
> flying at altitude in the simulator that I can see. Kind of boring just
> sitting on the ground. Maybe we need a wiki for the Simulator too.

Yes, just looked: at XCSoar. Version 6.7 has no Sim controls that I can
find but the option to run in Fly or Sim mode remains on the start up
screen. Then it turns out that half the menu function buttons can't be
clicked but require arrow keys and Enter to select them and you can't
tell until you try which is clickable and which must be keyboarded.

Sorry about giving you a bum steer.

All I can say is that I use LK8000 5.0a, primarily because I prefer its
display layout to that used by XCSoar, but of course ymmv. The LK8000 SIM
menu lets you set flying speed, altitude and turn rate so you can fly a
simulated task. All I can say is tat I'm very surprised that XCSoar 6.7
doesn't.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Use the mouse as you would use your finger.

On 7/16/2015 5:00 PM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Jul 2015 17:35:04 -0700, Soartech wrote:
>
>
>>> You have another choice as well: run XCSoar in simulator mode at home
>>> while you work out what settings suit you best and see exactly what it
>>> does in a variety of situations.
>>>
>>>
>> Martin, I have tried this but there is no way to simulate thermalling or
>> flying at altitude in the simulator that I can see. Kind of boring just
>> sitting on the ground. Maybe we need a wiki for the Simulator too.
> Yes, just looked: at XCSoar. Version 6.7 has no Sim controls that I can
> find but the option to run in Fly or Sim mode remains on the start up
> screen. Then it turns out that half the menu function buttons can't be
> clicked but require arrow keys and Enter to select them and you can't
> tell until you try which is clickable and which must be keyboarded.
>
> Sorry about giving you a bum steer.
>
> All I can say is that I use LK8000 5.0a, primarily because I prefer its
> display layout to that used by XCSoar, but of course ymmv. The LK8000 SIM
> menu lets you set flying speed, altitude and turn rate so you can fly a
> simulated task. All I can say is tat I'm very surprised that XCSoar 6.7
> doesn't.
>
>

--
Dan Marotta

One of our pilots runs Top Hat on a
Kindle. Looks great in Sunlight!

Vanilla XCSoar on a Nexus 7 I'm not so
sure. Google maps navigation display in
the car can be sunlight challenged.

The Oudie works better on my panel and
just barely squeezes between my 57 mm
airspeed and altimeter.

On Thursday, July 16, 2015 at 8:23:25 AM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
> Solution: (drumroll......) Get a smartphone (used on eBay). Tadaaaah!
>
> This conversation is akin to saying I want to go bicycle riding...but don't want to buy a bike???? XCSoar software is (of course)free. A used android smartphone is $50-$250 bucks.
>
> http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=201149111938&globalID=EBAY-US
>
> "You can lead a horse to the water but can't make it drink..."
>
> A fully functional, outstanding soaring flight computer for $125. Nice phone too if you can bear to bring yourself into the 21st century.
>
> Complaining about flight computers, books and manuals with this kind of high performance and extremely low cost solution available is unnecessary. All you really get with a $6000 spend on the "fancy stuff" is a brighter in panel display, airspeed and temp integration (wind, higher accuracy) and stick controllers. You can always mount the smart phone on the panel with industrial Velcro or a accessory mount...

Hi Sean,

Not trying to start anything.

In this thread & others (sorta related to the same vein..... "Get a Smartphone" with comments from you & others...), I guess I didn't understand the comment was, "Buy a used Smartphone for cheap, then use it as a display..... not to use it as a phone and pay for a dataplan".

Maybe it's "Exceedingly obvious" to you & others that made the same comment, but it wasn't obvious to me.... possibly others.

Not disagreeing, just commenting that maybe a few more words like, "Buy an outdated Smartphone and use it as a display with free soaring software for your glide computing needs" would limit/eliminate questions/issues.

I am NOT in a position to buy 4 Smartphones, get dataplans and THEN use my phone as a glide computer interface, but that is sorta what I gathered from comments in a number of threads.

Do you see my view?

Regardless, someone I know (that uses these threads) mentioned what you & others were likely driving at, I had not considered that as an alternate. Sorta makes sense.

Carry on.
Have a nice day.

I do. Your absolutely right. Point taken. Not enough description. I have an old Android phone with no data or service as a backup now. For my first 3 years of soaring (01-04) this with XC Soar was my primary and was excellent for contests and cross country about $150 dollars. For the money it's almost unbeatable.

Top hat is great too.

The Kindle has outstanding sunlight readability.

Oudie is also good, and integrates easily with varios, SN10s etc for wind and NMEA sentences but with cables your looking at $750+. I still have trouble reading my sunlight Oudie in the sun so I kinda feel like I wasted money "upgrading" from the XC-Soar.

Sean

What about small tablets, anyone using those as a flight computer?

Say the GalaxyTab4. http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_tab_4_7_0-6251.php

It has GPS. I went into Office Depot and downloaded TopHat / XCSoar on it using the stores wifi and then cut the wifi off and the GPS picked up my position inside the store. The screen seemed to look nice and all functions seem to work. Don't know about direct sunlight though, but could a sunscreen be used for this or any other device. After all the panel is somewhat of a sunscreen to panel instruments.

I did the same with a Galaxy III. It looked great in the store so I
bought it and was very disappointed with it in the cockpit. See if you
can take it outside into the direct sunlight before buying it.

I've found the Dell Streak 5 to have the best sunlight readable
display. They can still be found on eBay pretty inexpensively. I have
three of them...

On 2/25/2016 3:00 AM, Casey wrote:
> What about small tablets, anyone using those as a flight computer?
>
> Say the GalaxyTab4. http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_tab_4_7_0-6251.php
>
> It has GPS. I went into Office Depot and downloaded TopHat / XCSoar on it using the stores wifi and then cut the wifi off and the GPS picked up my position inside the store. The screen seemed to look nice and all functions seem to work. Don't know about direct sunlight though, but could a sunscreen be used for this or any other device. After all the panel is somewhat of a sunscreen to panel instruments.

--
Dan, 5J

Running thru this thread and many others of like ilk, I wonder if half of the responders could even make a gold distance flight on a booming day if their batteries quit. Whats so dang hard about reading a sectional, working a manual mcready ring and spinning a whiz wheel? Geesh! Ya all got better than 40/1 ships now so quit whinning, learn to fly effeciently with your eyes looking outside and go for it.
Ps. If you havent had an outlanding in awhile then your not flying to the limits of your skill level yet.

On Friday, 26 February 2016 03:39:12 UTC+2, wrote:
> Running thru this thread and many others of like ilk, I wonder if half of the responders could even make a gold distance flight on a booming day if their batteries quit. Whats so dang hard about reading a sectional, working a manual mcready ring and spinning a whiz wheel? Geesh! Ya all got better than 40/1 ships now so quit whinning, learn to fly effeciently with your eyes looking outside and go for it.

Yes, I agree and while we're on that point I suggest that all the airline pilots switch off their glass cockpits use a map, sextant and compass to navigate.

Op dinsdag 14 juli 2015 18:32:01 UTC+2 schreef chris johnson:
> I wish someone would write a soaring book on flight computers. How to choose one, program, trouble shoot them, use them. Combine book with YouTube explanations.

And if you are handy you can build your own.
http://www.openvario.org/doku.php
Runs Xcsoar.

Dirk

Well Surge, I'm not anti-tech, in fact Ive got half the above mentioned crap in my ship, my point is, can YOU fly your ship efficiently and safely without such tecno-dependance?
Extra tec doesnot always equate to better or safer xc performance. I was flying with a guy a little while back who was so damn preocupied messing with his flarm and his oudie that he was oblivious to a pair of naval t6 trainers that were cruising past us. The guy never saw them. Same guy could hardly core the thermal we were in, too busy dependent on the oudie to tell him where to shift his circle.
Im not anti tec Surge, just tired of folks blaming their lack of soaring skills on lack of functioning tecnology.

I find the Nook Simple Touch (6-inch black-and-white e-ink screen) to be more readable in sunshine than anything else I've seen, at any price. These can be had for about $30 on ebay. It takes some fiddling to "root" it and install Tophat (a derivative of XCsoar), but I've gotten used to the procedure, done it for several fellow club members. I use it with a USB GPS "puck" and a Y cable, and external power via a 12v->5V converter.

Before that for some years I used an ancient B&W Palm PDA plus a clip-on GPS with the Soaring Pilot software (also free), worked quite well actually, and was easy on the battery, but the Tophat software is more modern and intuitive, and the Nook screen is much larger.

Seems like the original poster here though wants to learn about how to make best use of a glide computer, not brand-name recommendations. There is a lot to learn, although best done by doing it (carefully - keep your attention outside the cockpit). I found that transitioning from paper-map-and-whiz-wheel to a computer allowed me to shift from over-cautious glide-guesstimating to a more precise glide envelope around each landable airfield on the route, resulting in my flying a lot more XC. At the price of occasional landouts of course.

> Seems like the original poster here though wants to learn about how to make best use of a glide computer, not brand-name recommendations. There is a lot to learn, although best done by doing it (carefully - keep your attention outside the cockpit). I found that transitioning from paper-map-and-whiz-wheel to a computer allowed me to shift from over-cautious glide-guesstimating to a more precise glide envelope around each landable airfield on the route, resulting in my flying a lot more XC. At the price of occasional landouts of course.

Alternate way: If you want to learn how to apply McCready theory using a generic PDA, I'd suggest getting CONDOR - the competition soaring simulator, which has one (displays push/pull on the e-vario). You can then fly multiple flights at different MC settings, in identical weather, and see what the result is, on, for example, final glides. You can save igc files from previous runs and fly "against" them as ghosts (and see who gets home, who doesn't, and who gets home fastest). Once you understand zero wind MC theory, do runs at different MC settings up and down wind. There probably is a CONDOR scenery for where you fly (or have flown). It's interesting to do in the winter, and I find that I have little rust to brush off in the spring.

Why get a book (though I have many, and read them all - Advanced Soaring Made Easy - 3rd Edition by Bernard Eckey is my current favourite, available from many fine vendors in North America) when you can live the experience in the comfort of your own home?

"I hear and I forget; I see and I remember; I do and I understand." Confucius

Do; Understand. Then, with the benefit of practical experience, you're prepared to look at different flight computers to find one that speaks to you.

Dan
2D

In addition to Dan's point about condor, you can also slave a variety of glide computers to the condor nema output. This lets you fly with, and tweak, your computer. You can be as heads down as you want with no danger. Except that crash noise can be surprising at times.

JD

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 5:23:24 AM UTC-5, JD Williams wrote:
> In addition to Dan's point about condor, you can also slave a variety of glide computers to the condor nema output. This lets you fly with, and tweak, your computer. You can be as heads down as you want with no danger. Except that crash noise can be surprising at times.
>
> JD

JD's right. I learned XC Soar on my Dell Streak (wireless connection) using Condor. I got a really good idea of which dialog boxes worked for me. When I got an LX7007, I learned it too (cabled connection).

If not online, CONDOR can also be paused - giving time to read the manual.

Nothing worse than watching a glider you know has a new computer in it wandering about the skies while the pilot is head-down trying to fathom what it is doing...

Dan, I agree that learn by doing with Condor would be a nice way to familiarize yourself with concepts such as McCready speed to fly and all the other features of XCsoar. But, even for me who likes technolgy, it is quite daunting to figure out how to hook up all the hardware and software. Would you be willing to write up a procedure?
Thanks for considering this.

On Saturday, February 27, 2016 at 9:54:37 AM UTC-5, Soartech wrote:
> Dan, I agree that learn by doing with Condor would be a nice way to familiarize yourself with concepts such as McCready speed to fly and all the other features of XCsoar. But, even for me who likes technolgy, it is quite daunting to figure out how to hook up all the hardware and software. Would you be willing to write up a procedure?
> Thanks for considering this.

I am a techno-bozo. I went to the XC Soar website forum and they have a "how-to" that even I could understand. It deals with connection, so once it's sorted, you're good to go.

Oh shucky darn!

I got so worked up about the Nook (I've been using a Streak) that I just
bid $15.50 on eBay and now I'm afraid I'll win the auction...

Dan

On 2/26/2016 4:28 PM, wrote:
> I find the Nook Simple Touch (6-inch black-and-white e-ink screen) to be more readable in sunshine than anything else I've seen, at any price. These can be had for about $30 on ebay. It takes some fiddling to "root" it and install Tophat (a derivative of XCsoar), but I've gotten used to the procedure, done it for several fellow club members. I use it with a USB GPS "puck" and a Y cable, and external power via a 12v->5V converter.
>
> Before that for some years I used an ancient B&W Palm PDA plus a clip-on GPS with the Soaring Pilot software (also free), worked quite well actually, and was easy on the battery, but the Tophat software is more modern and intuitive, and the Nook screen is much larger.
>
> Seems like the original poster here though wants to learn about how to make best use of a glide computer, not brand-name recommendations. There is a lot to learn, although best done by doing it (carefully - keep your attention outside the cockpit). I found that transitioning from paper-map-and-whiz-wheel to a computer allowed me to shift from over-cautious glide-guesstimating to a more precise glide envelope around each landable airfield on the route, resulting in my flying a lot more XC. At the price of occasional landouts of course.

--
Dan, 5J

<Relief> I was outbid by $0.50!

On 2/27/2016 5:01 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
> Oh shucky darn!
>
> I got so worked up about the Nook (I've been using a Streak) that I
> just bid $15.50 on eBay and now I'm afraid I'll win the auction...
>
> Dan
>
> On 2/26/2016 4:28 PM, wrote:
>> I find the Nook Simple Touch (6-inch black-and-white e-ink screen) to be more readable in sunshine than anything else I've seen, at any price. These can be had for about $30 on ebay. It takes some fiddling to "root" it and install Tophat (a derivative of XCsoar), but I've gotten used to the procedure, done it for several fellow club members. I use it with a USB GPS "puck" and a Y cable, and external power via a 12v->5V converter.
>>
>> Before that for some years I used an ancient B&W Palm PDA plus a clip-on GPS with the Soaring Pilot software (also free), worked quite well actually, and was easy on the battery, but the Tophat software is more modern and intuitive, and the Nook screen is much larger.
>>
>> Seems like the original poster here though wants to learn about how to make best use of a glide computer, not brand-name recommendations. There is a lot to learn, although best done by doing it (carefully - keep your attention outside the cockpit). I found that transitioning from paper-map-and-whiz-wheel to a computer allowed me to shift from over-cautious glide-guesstimating to a more precise glide envelope around each landable airfield on the route, resulting in my flying a lot more XC. At the price of occasional landouts of course.
>
> --
> Dan, 5J

--
Dan, 5J

> I am a techno-bozo. I went to the XC Soar website forum and they have a "how-to" that even I could understand. It deals with connection, so once it's sorted, you're good to go.

I am a professional technologist and experiment with all kinds of crazy tech, yet I too was daunted by setting up my XC Soar device with Condor, but it turns out these guys are right...it's a piece of cake. Just follow these directions very slowly and carefully: http://forum.condorsoaring.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12538

Here's the process in a nutshell:
1. Install the "COM Port" driver
2. Download and create a shortcut to a GPS / COM port "thingy" (easy, I promise)
3. Turn on the GPS "output" of Condor
4. Start Top Hat / XC Soar and setup the "GPS Port" device

FLY! It makes Condor even better.